Civilization v. the California Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV)

 

Our collision of human nature verses unaccountable bureaucracy begins thusly: needed a copy of my DMV registration for reasons explained below, but the security on the DMV website requires that the FORMAT of how you enter your physical address must match what they have on record. Tried three times, no dice. So asked for help online.

Feel free to skip the boring parts: they are many.

Miles (9/15/2021, 3:35:44 PM): Hello, I'm Miles, the California DMV's Virtual Assistant. I'm here to answer general DMV related questions. 

Miles (9/15/2021, 3:35:46 PM): I am pretty smart, but sometimes I hit a bump in the road. If I cannot answer your question, type "agent" or you will be prompted to chat with an agent during normal business hours, 8 a.m.–5 p.m. (Wednesday 9 a.m.-5 p.m.). 

Miles (9/15/2021, 3:35:47 PM): Menu Options:

Online Services

Vehicle/Vessel Registration

Driver's License/ID Card

Moving to California?

REAL ID 

Me (9/15/2021, 3:35:59 PM): agent 

Miles (9/15/2021, 3:36:01 PM): We are currently offering live chat as an option. Our average wait time to speak with an agent is 10 minutes. 

Miles (9/15/2021, 3:36:03 PM): Would you like to wait? 

Miles (9/15/2021, 3:36:04 PM): Menu Options:

Yes, wait for an agent

No, return to Main Menu 

Me (9/15/2021, 3:36:06 PM): Yes, wait for an agent 

Miles (9/15/2021, 3:36:08 PM): Lets start by collecting some basic information: 

Miles (9/15/2021, 3:36:09 PM): What is your First Name? 

Me (9/15/2021, 3:36:13 PM): Kevin 

Miles (9/15/2021, 3:36:15 PM): What is your Last Name? 

Me (9/15/2021, 3:36:17 PM): Madden 

Miles (9/15/2021, 3:36:19 PM): What is your email address? 

Me (9/15/2021, 3:36:23 PM): (I give them my email address)

Miles (9/15/2021, 3:36:25 PM): What is your phone number? 

Me (9/15/2021, 3:36:28 PM): (I give them that, too) 

Miles (9/15/2021, 3:36:29 PM): What is your inquiry about? Select an option below. 

Miles (9/15/2021, 3:36:31 PM): Menu Options:

Driver License

Real ID

Vehicle Registration

Other 

Me (9/15/2021, 3:36:35 PM): Vehicle Registration 

Miles (9/15/2021, 3:36:38 PM): Thank you for contacting us. We have logged case number REDACTED for your inquiry. Please wait for the next available agent. 

DMV Chat Support (9/15/2021, 3:56:52 PM): Thank you for contacting the California Department of Motor Vehicles.  I'm Louie, my agent number is (REDACTED to protect the guilty). 

How may I help you today?

Note: Please see DMV’s privacy policy for more information about our privacy policy, records retention, and privacy compliance: ~!Privacy Policy!~https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/dmvfooter2/privacypolicy/portal/dmv 

Me (9/15/2021, 3:58:31 PM): Hi Louie. 

Me (9/15/2021, 3:58:52 PM): I'm on the road, and trying to get parking permit for my Toyota for when I return to San Francisco at Halloween. 

Me (9/15/2021, 3:59:21 PM): To do so, I must enter the registration address \"as formatted\" which I don't have, as I bought my vehicle using Shift.com 

Me (9/15/2021, 3:59:50 PM): Despite me asking for them to mail it to  me, and send me a PDF a dozen times to where I am \"on the road,\" they sent it to my apartment in San Francisco. 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:00:12 PM): So can't copy the format for that question (to get a copy of my registration, which apparently I have to pay $2 for) 

DMV Chat Support (9/15/2021, 4:00:45 PM): I can confirm the address you have on file if that will help. 

DMV Chat Support (9/15/2021, 4:00:53 PM): May I have your vehicle’s license plate number, please? 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:01:36 PM): BRB 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:01:48 PM): REDACTED ADDRESS 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:01:58 PM): No, I know the address on the file.  

Me (9/15/2021, 4:02:12 PM): That won't help. YOUR employer demands the format be identical. 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:02:36 PM): Or I can't get a copy! Why don't you know this? 

DMV Chat Support (9/15/2021, 4:02:51 PM): DMV does not issue parking permits. This must be done through the City not the State. 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:04:01 PM): DUDE. 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:04:07 PM): I am NOT asking for parking permits. 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:04:16 PM): I am asking as I wrote for a copy of my registration. 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:04:19 PM): Scroll up. 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:04:34 PM): Reading comprehension is a huge issue at the DMV, every time I have a problem caused by the DMV. 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:04:45 PM): This is why Republicans hate us. 

DMV Chat Support (9/15/2021, 4:06:02 PM): Let me make sure I understand your question. You would like to request for a copy of your registration card mailed to your current address, is that correct? 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:07:40 PM): Jesus Christ NO. 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:08:09 PM): I am asking for a PDF of my registration, which is only possible if I fill out the DMV form online EXACTLY as formatted on the registration I DO NOT HAVE. 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:08:54 PM): If I can generate a PDF of my registration (after 3 times, your agency locks you out), I can then get my parking permit in SF. 

DMV Chat Support (9/15/2021, 4:09:03 PM): Who is "them" who sent you the document to your apartment? 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:09:15 PM): Shift.com 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:09:39 PM): In conjunction with the DMV. Despite repeated requests to have it Fedexed to me, to which they agreed. Again, I am traveling. 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:10:33 PM): So again, I need to know the EXACT FORMATTING of my address on the registration to get a copy of the registration. Genius security by the DMV, I must say. 

DMV Chat Support (9/15/2021, 4:10:45 PM): The issue is, proof of registration cannot be provided via a PDF format. It is only mailed to your address on file, or to a mailing address on file.

If you need a Vehicle Record Printout, this is a separate document that may also list your current address on file (however this is NOT proof of registration), this may come in a PDF format online once purchased for $2. 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:11:05 PM): Is that NOT EXACTLY WHAT I WROTE? 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:11:22 PM): You seem unfamiliar with the process I am enduring. 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:11:36 PM): This is an epic chat. 

DMV Chat Support (9/15/2021, 4:11:56 PM): Yes, these are your only options. You may either complete a Change of Address to add a mailing address on file then order a replacement registration card online.

Or purchase a Vehicle Record Printout for $2. 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:12:19 PM): I AM ASKING YOU FOR THE FORMAT SO I CAN GET THE VEHICLE RECORD PRINTOUT FOR $2 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:13:10 PM): I can't GET the record printout without duplicating the FORMAT of my own address. How do you NOT know this? How can you help me if you don't know that? 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:14:08 PM): This is why Democrats become Republicans. 

DMV Chat Support (9/15/2021, 4:14:12 PM): This is why I offered confirming your address in the first place. 

For verification purposes, please confirm the following details for me:

Year and make of the vehicle,

Your full legal name that would appear on record, and

Your current address on file. 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:14:23 PM): 2018 Toyota Rav4 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:14:26 PM): Kevin A. Madden 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:14:31 PM): REDACTED (my address) 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:14:34 PM): SF CA 94109 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:15:25 PM): I KNOW MY ADDRESS. Do you not know the word \"format,\" and not know your agency requires submitting my address in THAT format (which I don't have access to), to get that copy? 

DMV Chat Support (9/15/2021, 4:15:32 PM): Try removing the # sign. 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:15:32 PM): It is YOUR security system! 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:15:55 PM): Try telling me precisely the format, including if I need the city state and zip. 

DMV Chat Support (9/15/2021, 4:15:55 PM): The information you enter online is not checked against DMV’s database, so the information you enter on the screen does not have to match what is on your DL/ID, or in the DMV system. If you changed your address within the last couple years, please try both your old and new address. 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:16:08 PM): I HAVE NOT CHANGED ANYTHING - JESUS H. CHRIST 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:16:22 PM): Show me the exact format on my registration please: copy it and paste it. 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:16:26 PM): format 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:16:27 PM): format 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:16:28 PM): format 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:16:33 PM): i know the content 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:16:34 PM): content 

DMV Chat Support (9/15/2021, 4:16:35 PM): You have provided me with the correct address. Please remove the # sign, and please enter the city name in full. 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:16:41 PM): show 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:16:42 PM): me 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:16:43 PM): the 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:16:44 PM): who;e 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:16:46 PM): whole 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:16:47 PM): thing 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:16:48 PM): correctly 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:16:50 PM): formatted 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:16:51 PM): please 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:16:54 PM): for God's sake 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:16:57 PM): you sadist 

DMV Chat Support (9/15/2021, 4:16:59 PM): I cannot provide your address on this chat. I may only confirm it. 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:17:12 PM): So here's what I'll try: 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:17:27 PM): REDACTED (my address) 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:17:32 PM): Will that work on YOUR system? 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:18:01 PM): Yes or no. If no, please tell me what to change.  

DMV Chat Support (9/15/2021, 4:18:05 PM): Without the word Apt. Just the number. 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:18:10 PM): I started this question an hour ago 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:18:19 PM): So: 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:18:25 PM): I confirm their 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:18:27 PM): Yes? 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:18:57 PM): ? 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:19:05 PM): BRB - will try to enter that. 

DMV Chat Support (9/15/2021, 4:19:24 PM): That is correct. 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:19:56 PM): Will try it. Please check back in a few. 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:21:44 PM): \"Information provided does not match information currently stored on your DMV record.\" 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:22:04 PM): Gee, thanks for all the help. Do you have a supervisor I can scream at? Need their name, direct phone number, and email. 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:22:06 PM): Thanks bunches. 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:23:06 PM): I started to hold for this \"help\" 70 minutes ago. So you can imagine I might be a little frustrated with you giving me incorrect information, when you get paid a salary to give me correct information. 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:23:26 PM): Sitting by for supervisor contact info. 

DMV Chat Support (9/15/2021, 4:24:50 PM): Unfortunately, the DMV website is run by a third party. This is where the issue comes in where for some reason users cannot be verified correctly even if they are providing accurate information online. We have brought this concern so many times up above and it is still an issue. For that, I apologize.

Please allow me a moment to transfer you to a manager. 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:25:03 PM): You know what? I don't feel like hanging out for it any longer. Please email the above to (my email address) n.b. - never heard from them 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:25:06 PM): Pass, thanks. 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:25:27 PM): The DMV is trying to save money by offshoring it? Swell. 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:25:55 PM): If you had lead with that tidbit you finally admitted, we could have both saved a lot of time. 

Me (9/15/2021, 4:25:58 PM): bye 

Seeking Lost Autographs, Stolen the spring of 1998, McNear Elementary School, Petaluma, CA

Twenty-three years ago, I was co-teaching general music with a very fine guitar player, Kyle. I did not see it coming: have brought two books of autographs to share with the kids from my dad that my dad had got for me when he worked as a musician at Harrah's Tahoe. They are all signed to me, Kevin.

I had passed out two books of 8 x 10 glossy photos, and at the end of the hour, only got one back. I asked the kids to stay for a few minutes past the bell, but folded, and went back to ask the principal the following week if it had shown up. Looking back of course, I wish I had made the kids stay and made a scene, but it was just so shocking that somebody would steal something so personal, that I really didn’t know what to do. As I'm known for being assertive and confrontational, can't tell you how uncharacteristic this was of me. When theft happens, it is sometimes shocking - especially when it is from a group of 10 and 11-year-olds. 

Wanted to post this plea at the holidays of 2020, but felt too disappointed in humanity. Asking after a quarter-century for the return of something is a bit of an ask, but imaging hearing nothing back felt too depressing. I also have no idea why this has been particularly on my mind and bothering me lately, but the metaphors for loss during a pandemic are pretty obvious.

The signatures are all made out to me, Kevin (the stars would get a list of names, and thought that everyone on the list was in the band or on the crew, so you'll see many "thank you's"),  from everybody from my musical childhood musical hero Mac Davis, to Dolly Parton, to Jose Feliciano, and as my dad died in 2006, the collection is one of the few things from him left that I really treasure.

Kids are not really able to keep secrets: I know that somebody at the school, who is now a person in middle-age, (sorry to break that to you if you hadn’t thought about it before), as the 10-year-old of yesterday is now 33, knows what happened to it.

Condolences are kind but unnecessary: all I seek is their return. Please think of anyone you know from Petaluma, and share this posting with them. If you heard something, please run it down/check it out before sharing it with me. I have no desire to hassle the innocent, or even really the guilty.

Thanks for spreading the word. I'd like that huge, 3 ring binder full of my childhood back.

Kevin's Beyond-Last-Minute Holiday Gift Suggestions 2020, Too Late for Chanukah, and Yet Ideal Even if Late

I wanted to finish this list a week ago. 

Like you wanted to finish your online shopping, but haven't, because you know it won't get delivered in time. And you're not supposed to drive around to drop it off, because you know why.

As today, December 21st is solstice, and thus the shortest day of the year, this will be a remarkably short list of recommendations, with the distinguishing feature that each of the makers is known to me. I do not owe them any money. So there's that, in case you foul-minded people were wondering. Which you weren't until I noted that. Or were you?

Though I personally know these folks, any of them can compete in their expertise on the world stage, so buy with confidence, or bookmark for what we all hope is a flush 2021.

There is stuff in this list that is ten bucks; there is stuff here for a couple grand. Worth a look.

The Plague - 7 things Governor Newsom Can Do Better

An Open Letter to the Honorable Governor Gavin Newsom:

On the whole, I've been very pleased by your conduct during this rolling crisis. Those who know me are aware of my three central critiques of you: like many, not using the power you had when you had it (as mayor), mistaking binders of data and policy for measurable changes (I think you pulled down the YouTube videos you made as Mayor explaining your policy ideas, sincerely thinking we San Franciscans would watch a total of 10 hours of talking at the camera), and talking forcefully as though you have said something.

This is me playing the piano at Dan's house for a fundraiser for you in 2007:

This is Dan, another guest, and me looking in the direction of some guy talking.

This is the guy talking.

This is you (when you were San Francisco's mayor) about ten minutes after you blew off my question about MUNI.

All Photos by Mischa Photography (yes, I paid Mischa for the shots)

Now then, here is my terse list:

1.  Brevity is the soul of wit. Only about 20% of each of your daily conferences are new information. 

Keep it to 10 minutes of scripted/unimprovised communication, plus another 10 minutes of screened call-ins (should only be asking new questions). We don't want to be entertained; we want to be informed. You're a good improviser, but we pay you to govern, and me and my professional entertainment buddies, who improvise professionally, script most of what we say.

I turned the radio down to write this during your address, and you're STILL talking. Ministers (professional talkers) talk one hour once a week. Consider that. We appreciate you saying of yourself that you are "long winded" in some of your answers, but would prefer you dropping the habit altogether.

2. Create a single page of pandemic-centric information on the state of California's website, divided into sections with the newest information (e.g. unemployment insurance updates, gig worker updates, data for all patients/deaths, numbers to call for the isolated/lonely, etc.). 

Nobody is taking notes on what you are saying, and consolidating updated information is invaluable, and no California bureaucrats are doing it in this manner. We need one-stop shopping for good information.

3. Somebody told you that your new, pet phrase, "meeting this moment" is helpful and non-divisive. That person is an idiot. The phrase is Orwellian, and off-putting. Be less worried about offending people: keep following your good instincts to bring us together.

4. Kick some ass: the date on the state's unemployment page, I shit you not, is 2018. For those of us who gig for a living, please note the two, contradictory instructions on how to file:

Demote the two persons in charge of the website (one is IT, and the other is policy), and go on a 24 hour hunt for the competent person for those two disciplines already working there, who has written memos demanding that the state do better. Promote them. Now. 

To do this, have your senior staff call people to discover the truth using the phone: everybody in a given bureaucracy knows who is the dead weight, and who is quietly going insane because they know it doesn't have to be this way. Demote & promote, now.

5. Demand that "essential businesses" follow the policies & procedures I outlined here, because magician English major retired piano players can be of use during plagues: 7 Things Your "Essential Business" Isn't Doing

6. Invoke emergency legislation, and place the 15-20% (made up statistic) of homeless who suffer from significant brain trauma (violence or drug-induced), schizophrenia, or bi-polar disorder, and involuntarily conserve them. It is less expensive and kinder to do this than deal with the chaos and damage they will cause in shelters and hotel rooms, and further injuries they will sustain. The majority of the homeless will benefit from just being sheltered for now, and persons who are struggling outdoors will benefit from not making the incompetent fend for themselves during a pandemic.

7. There is a Los Angeles emergency physician getting results (despite Trump's advocacy) with zinc and hydroxychloroquine: COVID19 Combo Curing 

Create a task force staffed by clinicians to daily gather treatment outcomes for several major California hospitals: see if this (or another treatment) is working anecdotally, and see if you can get enough data to make the data though not controlled (i.e. with a control group), definitive nonetheless. You will learn what procedures were tried, what were the outcomes, and see if we can rush toward a successful cure.

8. Well, sorry. It's eight not seven points. At that fundraiser years ago Governor, I asked you a question that I still remember. You had floated a policy that if MUNI (San Francisco's public transit system) didn't hit certain marks of performance, there would be consequences. 

They didn't hit the marks, so I asked you what were the consequences. You hemmed, you hawed, you talked about the weather, but you didn't answer my question.

Earlier in the week, a reporter asked you about your change of policy on masks, and you insisted you'd not changed your policy on it (from for emergency personnel only so as to not exhaust supplies, to yes, everybody should be wearing one). We're not stupid. We remember what you said. 

Here is the new sentence that I need you to say when the situations is so warranted: "I made a mistake, and I've changed my mind."

* * *

Again, I think you're doing a fine job. I think you'd agree that you could do better, and the eight points above would result a sea-change in the effectiveness of your governance during this pandemic. 

Hope this finds you and your family well.

Sincerely,

Kevin the Critic™